Steve Matsuda's Runners Report


  • RACE RESULTS: SD Trail; Orange Curtin; Screenland; LASAA Mug #8; Friendship; Gasparilla; Brea
  • LOCALLY-SOURCED: NBB Race Series; AC Course Change; Verdugo Training; Snap LAM; Hotfoot Hamster; Diamond on the Rough
  • DID YOU SEE THAT: Teen Breaks Decker's Mark; Sara Explains Breakthru; 40 Years Between Sub-3s; 99 Pips 92 at Post; Comfort Medal; Down Syndrome Dance; Shoe Snafus; Shelter Dog Run
  • NEW BASIN BLUES: This Week; Racing Weekend; 2017 Race Series; Pics
  • NOT RUNNING BUT: Girls Day Dolls



  • Road Rage Runners - LAM Preview at Santa Monica Pier - 6:30
  • SANTA MONICA MOUNTAIN GOATS - Cheseboro - 8:00
  • LA ROADRUNNERS - Westminster Elementary School in Venice for 12-14 miles - 6:30
  • LA LEGGERS - 1450 Ocean Ave, Santa Monica - Check with Club
  • SANTA CLARITA RUNNERS - Santa Clarita for up to 10 miles - 7:00
  • ROCKIN' THE BEACHFRONT 10k, 5k, Half Marathon, Marathon
  • >> SUNDAY - MARCH 5
  • NEW BASIN BLUES - Ahmanson Ranch - 8:00
  • TRAIL RUNNERS CLUB - Liberty Canyon for 11 miles - 7:00
  • SANTA CLARITA RUNNERS - Granary Square for 12 miles - 6:30
  • LA RUNNING CLUB - Totem Pole in Santa Monica - 7:00
  • Winter's End 5k, 10k, 15k, Half Marathon
  • The Train Run Half Marathon & 626 Golden Streets Festival 5k, Half Marathon




March 2017

  • 07 Beginners Running Club 60 Session 3
  • 11 Dolphin Dash 5K, 10K, 15K, Half Marathon
  • 11 La Habra Races 1k, 5k
  • 11 SAINTS RUN 8th Annual Fun Run 5k
  • 11 St Patrick's Day 5K 2017
  • 11 Race For Success 5k Run/Walk
  • 11 Conquer Our Run St. Pattie's Quest 10k, 5k
  • 11 La Habra Run 5K Runners
  • 11 Dolphin Dash 5k, 10k, 15k and Half Marathon
  • 11 Pasadena Triathlon & 5k
  • 11 Catalina Island Marathon
  • 12 4th Annual St. Patrick's Day 5k/10k Fun Run/Walk
  • 12 RUN DEO RUN Trail Races benefitting Students Run LA 10k, 5k, Half Marathon, Marathon, Trail
  • 18 Rockin' Shamrock 5k, 10k, 15k, Half Marathon
  • 18 Cheetah Runners St. Patrick's Day 5k
  • 18 LA BIG 5K
  • 19 ADHD 5K Hero Walk/Run
  • 19 Spring Into Fitness Walk/Run 5k
  • 19 LA Marathon
  • 25 Spring Equinox 5K, 10K, 15K, Half Marathon
  • 25 VALENCIA Trail Race Ultra, Half Marathon
  • 25 March Madness 2, 4, 8 and 16 Miler
  • 26 Claremont Classic
  • 26 Cottontail Half Marathon 5k 10k
  • 27 SPRING 7 DAY 1 10k, 5k, Half Marathon, Marathon
  • 29 SPRING 7 DAY 3 10k
  • 31 SPRING 7 DAY 5 10k



>> San Diego Trail Marathon

  • Nickademus Hollon 3:02:10 2nd overall

>> Orange Curtin 100K

  • Jenny Welch 10:11:44 1st overall
  • Jack Cheng 10:34:15 1st male, 2nd overall

>> Orange Curtin 50K

  • Elena Makovskaya 4:00:01 1st overall
  • Lauri Luik 4:19:29 1st male, 2nd overall
  • Ben Gaetos 5:45:09 2nd in div
  • Michael Berger 5:57:17 3rd, PR
  • Deo Jaravata 6:43:26
  • Donn Ozaki 7:17:48
  • Mieko Priedkalns 8:36:57
  • Myrna Rowland 8:58:02
  • Debra Jorgensen 9:12:32
  • Gary Hilliard 9:40:19
  • Mark Ryne 10:09:10

>> Orange Curtin 30K

  • Diana Rush 3:24:48 1st female overall, 2nd overall
  • Steve Matsuda 5:55:35 2nd in div, 3rd male overall
  • Mari Muki 6:17:57 3rd in div
  • Pamela Hilliard 8:39:00 1st

>> Screenland 5k

  • Liz Warren 23:27 3rd in div

>> LASAA Mug Run #8 5k

  • Bady Salas 22:25 1st in div, 2nd overall

>> LASAA Mug Run #8 10K

  • Rosa Melendez 45:04 3rd in div

>> SRLA Friendship Run 18 mile

  • Paul Schuster 2:38:56
  • Helga Jessen 4:25:12 2nd in div

>> Gasparilla Half

  • Dee Dee Urquhart 3.25.54

>> Brea 8K

  • Van Zuyle 30.51 3rd in div
  • Naomi Bisagno 31.34 3rd in div
  • Chris Hartley 32.52
  • Tim Panec 33.44
  • Lubos Brieda 34.16
  • Claude Rossignol 34.40
  • Mike Hajek 34.53
  • Doug Humphries 34.58 5th
  • Todd Covert 35.24
  • Amir Medovoi 35.54
  • Joe Ogata 40.32 3rd
  • Sandra Brieda 41.05
  • Helga Jessen 53.15 1st


>> From the NEW BASIN BLUES:

Introducing the 2017 NBB Race Series

  • 4/1 - Old Agoura 10K (Great Race of Agoura)
  • 4/15 - Ahmanson 12K
  • 5/7 - Verdugo 10K
  • 6/4 - Love Run 10K
  • 6/24 - Wildwood Park 10K
  • 7/12 - NBB Basin 5000
  • 8/15 - NBB Hansen Dam 10K = Championship Race

Our goal in 2017 is to improve the experience of our race season. For the past two years we put together a team for the USATF XC series, which is very competitive but has low marketing exposure. We want to continue the USATF series because it's team-oriented but we would also like to participate in races that get more bang for our buck, hence our very own NBB Race Series. More details below.

>> From FB:

Per RD Ken Hamada here is a course change for the 2017 race.


>> From the Verdugo Mountains 10K Trail Run and Hike


Starting March 5th, join us every Sunday (except Easter) for our free training program. Led by our Race Director, Charlie Marko, you'll get the guidance you need to be ready for race day. Whether you're a "first timer" whose goal is to cross the finish line, or a veteran trail runner looking to improve upon your time from last year, this program is for you.

The training group meets at 8:00am in front of the Verdugo Mountains 10K banner near the Doctors House. Be sure to bring water and wear approprate footwear and clothing.

Class Dates: March 5th, March 12th, March 19th, March 26th, April 2nd, April 9th, April 23rd, and April 30th. (We will not meet on Easter Sunday, April 16th)

ALSO - DICKS Sporting Goods will provide 100 water bottles to the first 100 trainees for the 8 weeks of training


>> Snapchat Geofilters Will Line the Los Angeles Marathon Course

...and Snapchat will set its first world record.

Snapchat is taking their geofilters to the next level at the Los Angeles Marathon on March 19. The company, which is set to go public today, plans to make social media history by lining the iconic course with more than 40 marathon-themed geofilters.

Snapchat designed geofilters, which are essentially frames users can apply to their pictures, that highlight landmarks on the race course, giving runners a unique way to share their experience. Participants and spectators can use the function to celebrate important places such as Dodger Stadium and the Santa Monica Pier.

In addition to fun, Snapchat is hoping to set a world record. More than 24,000 runners and over a 500,000 spectators will have the chance to be a part of the “Longest On-Demand Geofilter Initiative,” spanning about 27 miles.

“This is an exciting way for our athletes, spectators, and the Los Angeles community to engage with one another on a social level while simultaneously setting a world record,” said Chief Executive Tracy Russell of the Conqur Endurance Group, the organizer of the Los Angeles Marathon, in a press release.


>> Hotfoot Hamster

We’re bringing it back! The Hotfoot Hamster will return to Nardini Manor for 24 Hour and 12 Hour fixed-time events on the 500 meter USATF certified course (road). The course is a flat crushed gravel loop that winds its way around the grounds of Nardini Manor.

MAY 6-7, 2017 - 24 Hour | 12 Hour - Buckeye, AZ


>> Diamond on the Rough

Follow the unlikely journey of former Major League Baseball player Eric Byrnes from the diamond to the rough trails of the 2016 Western States 100 Mile Endurance Run. Byrnes attempts to become the first former mainstream professional athlete to complete the grueling 100 mile course which navigates 19,000 feet of elevation gain and 23,000 feet of descent across the Sierra Nevada mountain range. Byrnes relies on his crew of family and friends, including former professional cyclist Lance Armstrong, to help him through the arduous process which challenges both his physical and psychological limits.

Showing on the Pac12 Network

Sun 3/5 6:00pm-7:00pm, 9:00pm-10:00pm

Mon 3/6 8:30pm-9:30pm



>> New York Teen Breaks 43-Year-Old Record Held by Mary Decker

Samantha Watson, an 800-meter ace, will compete in the U.S. indoor championships this weekend.

When Samantha Watson lined up for the 800 meters at the Millrose Games on February 11, she had one goal: She wanted to break the New York state record for the indoor 800 meters. That mark stood at 2:03.59.

But there was a surprise in store for Watson.

A 17-year-old senior at Rush-Henrietta High School, Watson crossed the line in sixth place against a deep professional field in 2:01.78, easily erasing the old New York high school mark.

Several minutes later she learned she had bested a much more prestigious record: the U.S. high school and junior indoor time of 2:01.80, recorded in 1974, by Mary Decker. Decker’s record was 43 years old.

“For indoors that’s very fast,” Watson told Runner’s World in a phone interview on February 25. “Especially when I haven’t even gone that fast outdoors.”


>> Sara Hall Explains Her Breakthrough at Fast Tokyo Marathon

Wilson Kipsang went for a world record while Sarah Chepchirchir of Kenya wins with a four-minute personal best.

When Sara Hall moved off the track, where she competed in the middle distances, she went straight for a vastly different event: the marathon. Since her debut in 2015, she’s already competed in a half dozen 26.2-mile races. The Tokyo Marathon on Sunday marked her biggest breakthrough yet: She finished sixth in 2:28:26.

Beating the 2:30 barrier has been a goal she’s chased from the beginning. Prior to racing Tokyo, the closest Hall came was 2:30:06 at the 2016 London Marathon.

Hall, 33, is coached by her husband, Ryan Hall, the fastest American-born marathoner in history, who retired last year. He and their four daughters joined her in December during a training stint in Ethiopia, where she decided to try something new.

“I had trained there a lot before, but I decided this time I wanted to try out joining with a group and really buying in,” Hall said. “We are thinking about moving there in the future, so I wanted to see if joining a team would be enjoyable for my career.”

When Hall had trained in Ethiopia other times, she stuck to her own schedule—but now that she’s learned the language and gotten to know other athletes and coaches, she felt a new comfort level in joining them. She ended up going back for a second stint before Tokyo.


>> Man Sets World Record for Sub-3-Hour Marathons

Steve Smythe, 58, explains how he’s been able to go under 3 hours for 40 years.

On February 19 at the Seville Marathon in Spain, Steve Smythe, 58, did something that he has done dozens of times before: He ran sub-3:00 for a marathon, finishing in 2:56:16—about 6:43 per mile pace.

What makes it a world best, however, is the length of time that elapsed between his first sub-3:00 marathon effort and his most recent: 40 years, 119 days, according to the Association of Road Racing Statisticians.

Smythe, a London-based magazine editor and coach, is the first person to achieve those marks across 40 years.

His first marathon was in 1976, when he was 18 and ran 2:54:42. Four decades later, as his 2:56 shows, he hasn’t slowed much from when he first started. (He set his PR, 2:29:42, in 1981.)


>> 99-Year-Old Upsets 92-Year-Old in Thrilling Sprint

Seven years and 0.05 seconds separated Orville Rogers and Dixon Hemphill at the 2017 Masters Indoor Track Championships.

Dixon Hemphill wishes he would have simply leaned at the finish. Maybe he didn’t do it because of lack of experience—he was, after all, the youngest of the two competitors in the race. Or maybe he didn’t do it because of his replacement hip.

“I think had I leaned a little bit, I would have won,” Hemphill, 92, told Runner’s World on February 21.

Donning a pair of prescription sunglasses because he lost his normal reading glasses while traveling, Hemphill (in lane 4 in the video above), a retired businessman from Fairfax, Virginia, was just beaten in the 60-meter-dash at the USATF Masters Indoor Track & Field Championships on February 18. It was a photo finish—five-hundredths of a second seperated him and the only other runner in the heat, 99-year-old World War II veteran and pilot Orville Rogers.

Hemphill led for 55 meters but was nipped at the line.


>> For Young Runner’s Widow, Race Medals Provide Comfort

Jamie Hawkins-Gaar of St. Petersburg, Florida, died after collapsing in a half marathon. He was 32.

Jamie Hawkins-Gaar’s finisher medal from the Best Damn Race Half Marathon in Safety Harbor, Florida, still rests on his night stand.

What his wife, Katie Hawkins-Gaar, does with it is an emotional decision she will make in the future.

On February 4, Hawkins-Gaar was close to finishing his second half marathon in less than a month when he collapsed near the finish line. He died several hours later. The cause of death is still unknown. He was 32.

Katie, 31, has both the Safety Harbor medal and the medal her husband earned a few weeks earlier at the St. Pete Beach Classic half marathon in St. Petersburg, Florida. That’s where she and Hawkins-Gaar had started to build a life together after moving from Atlanta a couple of years ago.

“I’m going to hold on to them for now,” Katie told Runner’s World. “Right now they bring good memories, obviously not the memory of him dying, but I’m just so proud of him for being such a fighter in everything that he did.”


>> Runner With Down Syndrome Dances Her Way Through Half Marathon Finish Line

Kayleigh Williamson paves the way for other special-needs runners in Austin, Texas.

The course had been packed up for hours. Most spectators were long gone. Every single half marathoner had collected his or her race medal and headed to a celebratory brunch. All but one.

Kayleigh Williamson, 26, crossed the Austin Half Marathon Finish Line in 6:22:56, making her the first person with Down syndrome to complete the Texas race.

“I kept going,” Williamson told Runner’s World by phone. “[When] I hit the finish line I was proud of myself. My friend got me pretty nice flowers.”


>> 7 Memorable Shoe Snafus in Races

When racing on the track or on the road, strange things can happen when footwear becomes footloose.

Running is often praised on the grounds that the only equipment you really need are shoes. That’s great up until something goes afoul with your footwear.

Take the latest incident on Sunday at the Patriot League Indoor Track Championship. In the middle of 800-meter championship run, American University junior Liam Purdy’s heel was clipped, leading to his shoe eventually flying off. Despite that, Purdy continued on, winning the race and setting a PR in a time of 1:53.25 with only his left shoe on. According to The Washington Post, Purdy barely noticed after the race that he lost a little skin on the bottom of his foot.

Here’s a rundown of other notable shoe snafus:


>> Running Shelter Dogs Make Their Television Debut

An episode of the “Shelter Me” documentary series highlights a cross-country team’s dedication to bettering the lives of local rescue dogs.

When Steven Latham first saw a video of the St. Joseph High School cross-country team running with dogs from the Santa Maria Animal Center in Santa Maria, California, last summer, it immediately brought a smile to his face.

Latham, a documentary filmmaker and producer, thought the team’s partnership with the center would be perfect to document for his series Shelter Me, which features stories about shelter animals and the people who help them. Beyond the virality of the initial video, Latham found that the team’s enthusiasm and passion has done a lot of good for the animals at the shelter.

Luis Escobar, the team’s coach, first decided to do this as a way to reward his runners and help the dogs unwind, but he didn’t realize how much it would resonate with people—more than 200,000 people have viewed his video on Facebook.




>> Happening This Week

  • Thu 3/2 - Balboa Park
  • Sat 3/4 - LAM Preview with other clubs
  • Sun 3/5 - Ahmanson Ranch

>> Featured News

It was a big weekend for the New Basin Blues! On Saturday Maggie Shearer raced her first 3K on the track and averaged 5:40 per mile to win her heat. On Sunday walkers and runners braved the elements at the Top of Reseda, while another group had a great showing at the Brea 8K.

Brea 8K Results


Masters (40+): Second Place - Congrats to Chris, Claude, Sandra, Michael & Amir!

Grand Masters (50+): Second Place - Congrats to Paul, Doug, Helga, Tim & Todd!


Naomi - Third Place.

Paul - Third Place.


One race result omission from last week - at the Westlake Village Pancreatic Cancer 5K Paul Van Zuyle took third place overall - beating not just his 50+ contemporaries but also all 40+, 30+ and 20+ runners!

>> Introducing the 2017 NBB Race Series

Goal of Race Series: To get everyone - walkers, hikers, track stars, marathoners, ultra runners - to come out and participate in local races. Whether it's racing or spectating we want you out there enjoying the day, getting your exercise and representing our club. All you have to do is show up and hopefully the following things happen:

You have fun!

You support local race directors so they can continue putting on races and also local charities within our community

You help the club create a presence in the community and increase our marketing exposure

You score points! Run 3 of the first 6 races + championship race and we will score your results cross-country style. We are working on prizes and awards to be given out at the end of the season; details to be posted soon. This is our first year and we definitely want to reward participation.

Registration / Discount Codes

We've contacted local race directors to let them know NBB is coming and have collected exclusive club discount codes for you. Check our website to register for these races. Important: GROA discount code expires on Friday, March 3rd.

News and Updates

Click below to visit the NBB race team website and see what else is going on. You can also subscribe to future racing team emails using the link below:


NBB Race Series - FAQ

Who is leading the series?- We have a racing committee chaired by Abby Canizales. If you have suggestions on the series or would like to be part of the committee email Abby at

Who can participate? - Everyone! We want to encourage everybody to come out to these races to participate and/or cheer on our team. The series is also open to the public so the people we meet at these races can join in on the fun (and maybe our club).

Who is the race team?- You! You are our race team. Whether you're quick as lightning or just starting out we want you to represent us at these races. So be on your best behavior: no unauthorized bib transfers and no race bandits (if you are not registered please stay off the race course).

I'm a serious/fast runner - when can I train with the team? - Many of our racing team members either already have a coach, are on a different training schedule or live far away. So this is how we pull together during the season:

Come to our Thursday tempo runs or Sunday social runs and hang out afterwards for our post run picnics

Coordinate runs with fellow team members

Sometimes we get together for house parties or meet up after runs

The key is to show up and spend some time with your teammates. You might even get a workout out of it!

Why choose these race distances? - We chose shorter distances like 10Ks and 5Ks because these are all-inclusive and they benefit runners concentrating on other disciplines. For example, marathoners and ultra runners would benefit in speed while track runners will benefit in endurance.

Where can I get NBB race uniforms? - Our official club uniforms (and warm-ups) are underway - hang tight for announcements!

Do we have race discounts? - Yes! Check the website


Brea 8K -

Top of Reseda -





>> Doll maker offers mini-Donald Trump for Japan’s Girls Day holiday

Shoppers dismayed at company’s decision to include US president in collection given his comments about women

A traditional Japanese doll modelled after the US president, Donald Trump, has raised eyebrows among some shoppers in Tokyo in the run-up to Girls Day, the Japanese holiday celebrating the health and happiness of girls.

The Trump doll, clad in a gold and black kimono with a golden-haired head, was unveiled on Thursday by Kyugetsu Co Ltd, which makes traditional “hina” dolls for the 3 March holiday.

The day is usually celebrated by families, who decorate their homes with the 60cm (2ft) high dolls to wish their daughters health and happiness.

Some customers expressed surprise at the company’s decision to include a Trump doll among its four new offerings for Girls Day.

Debbie Walker, a tourist from Ohio who was buying a set of dolls for her newborn granddaughter, said the Trump doll was not appropriate given his comments about women, which emerged during the US election last year.

“He is not for women or little girls, so I do not support him,” said Walker.




>> From the Road Rage Runners:

Special Run Event 3/4

Come join some of your favorite San Fernando Valley run clubs, @NewBasinBlues, @ValleyRunnersLA, @RoadRageRunners, @WeRunLA and @PitfireRunningClub as we join together to bring you a preview of the last 6 miles of the 2017 Los Angeles Marathon.

We will be meeting at the Santa Monica Pier lower parking lot at 6:30 am with a brief introduction by the individual run clubs.

The run will begin promptly at 7:00 am. We will run out 6 miles and loop back to complete the 12 mile route.

Let's represent and wear our run club colors!

This is a self sustained run so please bring enough fuel/water you will require for the duration of the route.

We will be providing refreshments and snacks post run as well as high fives and good vibes. Everyone is welcome, we hope to see you there!



MAR 4 Cheseboro

Saturday at 8 AM - 10 AM

Cheseboro Canyon, Agoura Hills, CA

Daily Routine: Get up, be amazing, go back to bed.

TRAIL MAP (there's a reason this link is provided, please print and/or memorize):


5792 Chesebro Road, Agoura Hills, CA 91301

Park in the dirt lot with the wooden fencing. Meet (but don't obviously meet) at 8am when the parking lot gate opens. Start around 8:15am - ish.

Sometimes the park ranger enforces the requirement to get a permit for groups containing 10 people or more, and we don't have a group permit so try not to look like a groupie. In other words, show up, casually sign-in on clipboard, make sure you brought your trail map, if ranger is there then we probably won't do pre-run announcements or discuss trail directions (so it's a good thing you brought your trail map, right?). Just start going up the dirt road where the ranger trailer and portapotties are, then find your buddy once you are out of the ranger's view (if you're waiting for a friend, simply hang out about a quarter mile up from the start area). Pick any direction you want (refer to the trail map) and go out for 60 minutes at your own pace, preferably about the same pace as your buddy (hint: pick a buddy who has good stories to tell, a keen sense of direction, carries extra hydration/snacks, and keeps his/her car key in a secure place; or better yet, strive to be that good buddy for others). At 9:15am, turn around and head back to the parking lot where you'll sign in on the clipboard and act surprised that so many people you know just happen to be there sharing some refreshments (courtesy of Mark H.). Don't wear any Santa Monica Mountain Goats shirts or hats (well, if it's the only clean item left in your wardrobe, then just turn it inside out, thanks).

Do not litter on this trail (or any trail). It will not be marked, so plan accordingly.

Here's even more info about this location.


Please send an email to if you're amazing and want to bring drinks to the trail of your choice on March 11 or March 18th.

Anyone can be cool, but it takes practice to be awesome,



Date and Time: Saturday, March 4 at 6:30am - WEEK 24 MILEAGE

BEGINNER: 12 miles INTERMEDIATE: 12 miles ADVANCED: 14 miles

Saturday mornings - Park at Westminster Elementary School in Venice, 1010 Abbot Kinney Blvd, Venice, CA 90291. Run starts at Windward Ave Ocean Front Walk at 7:00.

>> From the LA LEGGERS:

1450 Ocean Ave., Santa Monica, CA 90401

Check with Club


LoweBucks Run 7am – 9am

26415 Bouquet Canyon Rd Santa Clarita, CA

Saturday run at Lowes parking lot. 10 miles with various marked shorter routes. Coffee afterwards at Starbucks.,+Santa+Clarita,+CA+91350/@34.4266036,-118.5404349,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x80c28773c21cc6e5:0x706ff97546428b08?hl=en




>> From the NEW BASIN BLUES:

03/05 - Sun - Ahmanson Ranch @ 8AM

Directions : 101 Fwy Exit Valley Circle Blvd and head North (2 miles), Left - Victory Blvd (0.5 mile)

Meetup Map:



Mar 5 Liberty Canyon Run 7:00 11 mi.

The Trail Runners are a congenial group of varied abilities who run different courses in the Santa Monica Mountains every Sunday. The routes are on fire road and single-track trails varying from 9-14 miles, and are pre-marked for each run. Schedule and course descriptions can be found at . Written descriptions of many of the courses can be found in 50 Trail Runs in Southern California, written by club members. For further info, call 310-379-1068 of email us at You have a lot to gain, and not much to lose by giving it a try.


6:30am miles

Granary Square Shopping Center, 25830 McBean Pkwy, Valencia, CA 91355, USA

Marathon training for the 2017 Los Angeles Marathon. Please, bring $1 to help Rawlings to place water and Gatorate on key points or $10 for the whole session. Join us for coffee afterwards. For more information about SCR, please visit

>> From the LA RUNNING CLUB:

Every Sunday – Totem Pole – 7:00 am: San Vicente and Ocean Avenue, Santa Monica


Tread lightly,


Website Links.....